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RE: An EV motor home/van?
Read an article here where someone did a drive with an EV and compared the time of driving a gas vehicle the same trip.
Gas 5-6 hours
EV 12 hours
The drive was in the southeast.
Weird. A 6 hour trip in a gas vehicle for us here would be (and is) the same 6 hours in our Tesla.
Oooooh ... that's interesing!
Are you saying your Tesla can go - what would be 6 hours in a gas/diesel vehicle - at 70+ MPH without one (or two) time increasing waits at recharging stops? (My 24 ft. gas Class C MH can travel continuously for 6 hours - with it's air conditioning or heating running - at highway speeds without refuelig stops, if I ever wanted to.)
The energy in a gallon of gas or diesel is way up there. Affordable batteries for the masses with equivalent energy densities are a way off yet.
I'll wait awhile on an EV motorhome or camper van - until battery technology is really ready.
Here's a FWIW P.S.: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/oct/24/amazing-infuriating-history-electric-car-in-pictures
Good morning. I’m talking about a car not a motor home. When we traveled to Vancouver BC in our Jeep grand Cherokee it was about 6 hours depending on road conditions, weather etc. It’s the same in our tesla. We are usually on the road by 08:30 in the morning and off by 14:30. We try to miss the rush hours that way. We typically stop in one place for a bathroom break and a quick lunch. Maybe 15 to 20 minutes. We charge while we eat. Works for us. To each his own.
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Reisender
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10/24/23 12:49pm |
General RVing Issues
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RE: An EV motor home/van?
Read an article here where someone did a drive with an EV and compared the time of driving a gas vehicle the same trip.
Gas 5-6 hours
EV 12 hours
The drive was in the southeast.
Weird. A 6 hour trip in a gas vehicle for us here would be (and is) the same 6 hours in our Tesla.
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Reisender
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10/24/23 08:08am |
General RVing Issues
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RE: An EV motor home/van?
That’s like 400 kilometres. That would work for us no problem. A few hours of travel. Take a lunch and charge break and do a few more. Heck. Most days when we tour we only travel about 2 hours every 3 or 4 days.
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Reisender
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10/22/23 05:37pm |
General RVing Issues
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RE: How many EVs is GM actually selling?
I think believing EV's are not viable it because of the lack of charging stations is silly.
At some point there were cars and no gas stations.
The wright bros. didn't give up on the airplane because there were no airports.
The infrastructure will come in time. To think there should be a charging station on every corner at this juncture is foolish.Depends on when you want to travel.
I want to now. Not at some point in the future. Is that foolish? If so, I will proudly wear that label.
Yah that’s valid and hits close to home. We have a number of family members who really want to switch to EV as it will save them a ton of money with the amount of kilometres they drive. But the corridor to northern BC is not finished yet and probably won’t be for 2 more summers. It’s the same corridor that’s keeping us from travelling and camping in the Yukon and into Alaska. Both BC hydro and Chevron are chipping away at it (and tesla to a lesser extent) but it will be awhile yet. Bottom line is it has to make sense.
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Reisender
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10/14/23 07:04am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: How many EVs is GM actually selling?
So how do ya run and charge those EVs when it’s 0 or -30 outside?
It’s great and all, but the only apartment places that seems to have convenience outlets for each car are also places where EVs don’t fare so well yet.
Even assuming charging immediately after returning home, with a warmed up battery, how much of that 15-20A convenience outlet is actually providing additional charge and how much is charging what the battery is using to maintain temperature?
Again, at this point, the technology is good for some (who also aren’t afraid to spend more money on cars) and not even close to a reality for many.
Just keeping the flip side of the story real, here.
Yah for sure. Ideally a 3 KW or better charge source is better in winter although we did it for a couple years with just a 15 amp plug. Literally used our soffit plug for Christmas lights. But keep in mind that this is all achievable and people make it happen. Generally speaking, the further you go north the higher the adaption rate of EV’s is. Norway has the highest EV adoption rate in the world, now north of 90 percent. Iceland, holland, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany all have high EV adoption rates. Many people start by buying a single EV. Then winter comes and everybody in the house is fighting over who gets to drive the EV. The next year the gas vehicle gets replaced by another EV and it’s an EV household. Literally happened to us. EV’s are super convenient in winter, especially if you have to park outside. Always getting in a warm car. Never having to go to a cold gas pump and freezing your hands. (Charging at home). I could never go back to a gasser in winter and everybody we know driving an EV feels the same.
Here’s our old leaf plugged into our soffit plug. This is back in 2015 or 2016.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53250198708_08af0fd3d9_c.jpg
And yah we get winter here although our lows are typically not below minus 25. Our Tesla model 3.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50772046262_35e5ed79e3_c.jpg
Jmho.
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Reisender
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10/10/23 09:59pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: How many EVs is GM actually selling?
Boils down to the same thing. There’s an @ss for every seat and for many an EV of some sort is that seat.
Depends what you spend on cars too. Me, currently there is a different vehicle for each day of the week and 2 drivers. All of which could be daily’s technically.
And an EV would fit either of our commuting habits. But I have a company truck so free= better than everything else.
That said, $38k doesn’t seem bad, until I compare it to the last “new” (to me) vehicles I bought, a host of commuter beater suvs in the $5k range which get driven and sold for the same or more $ than purchased. Or the 2016 Ram. Gave $37k with 60k miles a few years ago. Can’t see spending $38k on a base model chit box commuter car….
Then there’s much of the population who are never “stepping up” to the Tesla from the bolt or whatever. They won’t even be in the EV game until those are dime a dozen used clunkers. And then they better hope they live in Saskatchetoon where everyone gets a free block heater outlet at their apt parking spot.
It’s a little assuming to think everyone can or does buy new or expensive vehicles.
I hear ya. @ss for every seat. :). I like that.
The base 38,000 tesla is a great commuter but for those who make occasional road trips it’s actually…ok. Mostly because of the supercharger network availability and speed.
Heads up. We used to own apartment buildings in Alberta. The block heater receptacle in the parking lot goes back to a breaker in the renters apartment so the renter normally pays the bill. Where we were in central Alberta at minus 35 with a gas or diesel vehicle you were plugged in, or starting in the morning was iffy. The 15 amp 120 volt receptacle would be adequate for modest commutes if charging from it. Maybe max 100 kilometre commutes. Maybe 70 in winter depending on the car. Not idea but I know a ton of people are doing it. It gets talked about on the EV groups often.
Cheers.
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Reisender
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10/09/23 02:56pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: How many EVs is GM actually selling?
Yes, it is a shame that the Bolt is being discontinued, but IMO it sends a huge message. If Americans won't embrace what is probably the lowest priced, very affordable EV, it looks like the mainstream buyer is not ready for EV's. Bring on the economical ICE's and hybrids. I think they're here to stay for quite a while.
The bolt is being discontinued because they lose too much money on them. The price has to be as low as it is to compete with Teslas 38000 dollar model 3 which is a superior car in every way. Essentially they just got priced out of the market.
The base price of a Bolt is $26,500 -- a far cry from Tesla's $38,000 buy-in.
Exactly my point. They have to be that cheap to sell against the tesla. And even then the majority spend the extra money and step up to the tesla. Doing a cross country the country road trip in any season is easy with a tesla. A bolt…not so much. R
The bolt is a nice little commuter and works well for people who need it for that. But short of a large makeover it’s easier to just produce a whole new model with decent charging and tech. And that will happen with the Equinox. As well they need to produce its replacement in house in North America instead of just buying and importing all the significant bits from Korea and assembling them in North America.
I don’t think the bolt name will disappear. It’ll be back…someday.
All the above JMHO. Not an expert.
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Reisender
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10/09/23 07:34am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: How many EVs is GM actually selling?
Suburban homes or homes with carports/garages/off street parking can take advantage of at home charging. Apartment dwellers not so much so and will still need to visit a fueling station where the costs go up, fueling and wait times are longer.
I would have no issue buying a EV if the cost to purchase was comparable to ICE, the weight of the vehicle was similar to ICE, the ability to haul stuff was comparable, can be recharged in 5 minutes, and could be towed 4 down. So far I can’t find one.
Re apartments. Where we are public charging is common in apartments and condo complexes.
You think there is enough should a large number of renters / condo owners switch to EV’s?
Context would help here. Reisender lives in one of the most progressive areas of the continent. Far more environmentally “sensitive”, economically expensive and politically liberal/socialist than the vast majority of the US and Canada, both from a geographical and income/cost of living perspective.
Even moreso than Seattle/Portland area, where on any or every day to work, Teslas are like Toyota Camrys and more economical EVs and plug in hybrids are like Toyota corollas. And there’s not a day goes by I don’t see a couple 3 4 Rivians, a HummEE a few times a week, at least 1 Lightning per day and the occasional Lucid.
That’s where he lives. I’ll bet money that is nowhere near the same, actually guaranteed it’s not even close to what the car scene looks like in Stump Holler,SC or most of the country. All of it thus far if you take major metropolitan areas out of the mix.
No, there’s no “apartment EV charging stations” in Bear Scat, WI or Dead Cow, Nevada. Heck even if there was, folks there can’t afford them types of cars.
Pretending that rich city slickers living in apartments by choice is the norm is a false claim. Everyone else out there is living in an apartment because that’s all they can afford.
So even buying a used yet overpriced 10 year old Nissan Leaf with suspect batteries is off the table.
This is not anti EV. They have their place and their places are expanding. Somewhat forced by the govt, but it would be happening anyway, just not as far along.
It’s just tiring hearing over and over again how “convenient” it is to have an EV, with A. No mention of how you could afford that $100k thing and B. No consideration or pretending like the sheltered full featured city world you live in somehow exists everywhere else.
Some good points Grit.
Just a heads up. The adaptation rate in Quebec is higher than BC and consequently the infrastructure is more advanced as well.
You mentioned 100,000 dollar EV’s. I don’t think they sell a lot of those but really don’t know. The most common Tesla sold is around 38000 ish bucks USD before any kind of incentives. Bolts are around 30 grand.
Cheers.
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Reisender
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10/08/23 07:44pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: How many EVs is GM actually selling?
Suburban homes or homes with carports/garages/off street parking can take advantage of at home charging. Apartment dwellers not so much so and will still need to visit a fueling station where the costs go up, fueling and wait times are longer.
I would have no issue buying a EV if the cost to purchase was comparable to ICE, the weight of the vehicle was similar to ICE, the ability to haul stuff was comparable, can be recharged in 5 minutes, and could be towed 4 down. So far I can’t find one.
Re apartments. Where we are public charging is common in apartments and condo complexes.
You think there is enough should a large number of renters / condo owners switch to EV’s?
Probably. Infrastructure typically grows with customer demand. 1 for every 8 or 12 cars would probably do it. That seems to be the ratio at the newer buildings here. Looking at the app they seem to be using 6 kw paired units here, or at least the ones I have seen.
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Reisender
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10/08/23 01:27pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: How many EVs is GM actually selling?
Suburban homes or homes with carports/garages/off street parking can take advantage of at home charging. Apartment dwellers not so much so and will still need to visit a fueling station where the costs go up, fueling and wait times are longer.
I would have no issue buying a EV if the cost to purchase was comparable to ICE, the weight of the vehicle was similar to ICE, the ability to haul stuff was comparable, can be recharged in 5 minutes, and could be towed 4 down. So far I can’t find one.
Re apartments. Where we are public charging is common in apartments and condo complexes.
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Reisender
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10/08/23 07:25am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: How many EVs is GM actually selling?
Yes, it is a shame that the Bolt is being discontinued, but IMO it sends a huge message. If Americans won't embrace what is probably the lowest priced, very affordable EV, it looks like the mainstream buyer is not ready for EV's. Bring on the economical ICE's and hybrids. I think they're here to stay for quite a while.
The bolt is being discontinued because they lose too much money on them. The price has to be as low as it is to compete with Teslas 38000 dollar model 3 which is a superior car in every way. Essentially they just got priced out of the market.
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Reisender
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10/08/23 07:22am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: How many EVs is GM actually selling?
GM's production and "sales" of EVs, including pickup trucks, went up by a large percentage in the 3rd quarter. But they count vehicles as sold when the dealer takes them. ..........
True of all vehicles. All those thousands of EV, hybrid, and ICE vehicles setting on dealer lots count as sold.
I am fairly certain that Tesla does not. Heck, they own the sales outlets so the cars would still belong to Tesla anyway.
True. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ford someday breaks out their EV division from the rest of the company. They are getting a lot of push back from the dealers apparently. Maybe go to an internet model like Rivian or Tesla. Here is the price. Pick it up in 6 weeks. Pretty nice purchase experience.
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Reisender
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10/07/23 12:08pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: How many EVs is GM actually selling?
I think some of the newer companies like Lucid, Rivian and Tesla don’t count them sold until they are delivered. But for the most part they don’t stock them on lots either.
We have noticed a bunch of mustangs sitting on the ford lot but when we looked they all had big upcharges on them. Not sure why they do that. They are literally more expensive than a tesla model Y here. Weird.
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Reisender
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10/07/23 10:41am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: EV use the 30 amp 110V?
Thank you again Reisender for answering my question. I am not ready to give up the 5er and the F250, but it does sound (and from my experience it looks) like we are working out the kinks with the new way to travel.
Down in the lower 48, I see a lot of 50/30 amp sites, with no extra charge. My guess is that as the future unfolds, we will work it out.
I do admit that I often arrive at a campsite low on gas, if I know gas is handy, I drop and fill. My truck is gas with an aux tank, not diesel.
Yah for sure. We don’t assume that we will be able to charge at a campsite so we always arrive with enough reserve to go to the nearest supercharger or DC fast charger. It’s a good habit to get into.
Cheers.
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Reisender
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10/05/23 06:33pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: EV use the 30 amp 110V?
Do you explain to the staff how much extra power you are using and what it is costing the park? Particularly for government parks, they may have no idea and effectively its driving up the cost for your neighbors.
If it's one in a thousand sites, your neighbors will never notice but when it hits significant numbers they will bear most of the cost as the park recoups power costs .
Do I explain? No. But EV’s are common here. Many times the park staff are driving them too so I’m sure they know what’s involved. And keep in mind that on 30 amp sites which is mostly what we rent it’s either the EV or RV not both so consumption isn’t that much higher. Probably 30 or 40 kWh over a few days. There are occasionally up charges although we have never been charged additional fees on a 30 amp site. That’s just luck of the draw though as I know some do. In quebec we stayed in a park that had signs indicating EV/RV combos had to rent 50 amp sites but there were none available the 5 nights we were there so he just told us to make sure we only plugged in one thing at a time. He didn’t charge us anything extra. We charged the first night and then topped up the day before we left.
We are seeing more and more parks put in a couple or even four centralized. 8 kw EVSE’s for charging and they just indicate that any EV charging must be done using those EVSE’s (Charge stations) and not on the sites. Some are stand alone and complimentary and some are networked usually thru FLO and typically charge a dollar or two an hour based on speed. On our last trip there were two new FLO units at the shower house which was maybe 4 or 5 sites from our site. I think it was 2 bucks an hour. We got set up on our site and I drove over and plugged in. It was all charged up by bed time.
If they provide dedicated EV charging stations, that's a different ballgame as the owner/manager has made a conscious decision to provide the service. If they spent thousands of dollars installing EV charging stations, I can buy the argument, they should inform themselves.
But in normal usage: Presuming the staff has any clue is wildly optimistic. If they are staff vehicles, they likely never see the bill. If you highlight the amount of power you are consuming and a rough estimate of the cost...a much better chance it gets back to the owner/manager who then can make an informed decision rather than just flying under the radar.
As far power consumption on a 30amp being similar...on a hot day, we are pulling around 12-14amps when the air/con is running and it typically cycles dropping to 3-4amps when the air/con is off. You indicated your telsa is set to pull 24amps as a baseline and presumably does that until the batteries are full:
- Let's say RV is 16hr at 14amps + 10hr at 4amps ~ 31kwh
- EV is 24hr at 24amp ~ 69kwh
- On a cold day (no air/con), RV only is ~ 11kwh and the resulting cost differential is much higher.
That's an extra 38kwh (best case scenario) and won't fill the car if you are coming in empty and splitting off some of that power for RV use (even more if you use the 15amp for the RV while the EV is plugged into the 30amp as you showed in one of your pictures). Works out to around $10 extra at $0.25/kwh. If you have a 200site park and 25% are doing this, that's an extra $500/day in electrical consumption.
Yah some good points. But a couple of counter points.
-When I am hooked to 120 volts our heat and hot water is 120 volts so that’s an additional load. (Our trailer uses boiler heat and hot water).
-On a typical 3 or 4 day stay we typically only charge one of those days. Or maybe a little bit the night before we leave to top up.
- I have never arrived at a campground with an empty battery anymore than I would arrive with an empty gas tank. So i am never charging from empty.
- Most campground owners understand exactly what kind of consumption and draw an electric vehicle is. They are very common here. Those that are concerned charge a fee. It’s not uncommon although as I said so far no one has charged us anything on a 30 amp site. They have on occasion directed us to certain sites though so maybe they have a technical reason for doing that.
- Those that are uncomfortable with any charging can simply not allow it. It’s nothing we have ever run into but we have heard of it. It’s best that they put that on their website though so people can make informed decisions.
As I said, generally speaking most campground operators are very accommodating and many have gone out of their way to insure a good charging experience, and yes sometimes for a fee.
Hope that helps.
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Reisender
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10/05/23 03:04pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: EV use the 30 amp 110V?
Reisender, Thanks for all of your detained information.
My pleasure.
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Reisender
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10/05/23 09:19am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: EV use the 30 amp 110V?
Do you explain to the staff how much extra power you are using and what it is costing the park? Particularly for government parks, they may have no idea and effectively its driving up the cost for your neighbors.
If it's one in a thousand sites, your neighbors will never notice but when it hits significant numbers they will bear most of the cost as the park recoups power costs .
Do I explain? No. But EV’s are common here. Many times the park staff are driving them too so I’m sure they know what’s involved. And keep in mind that on 30 amp sites which is mostly what we rent it’s either the EV or RV not both so consumption isn’t that much higher. Probably 30 or 40 kWh over a few days. There are occasionally up charges although we have never been charged additional fees on a 30 amp site. That’s just luck of the draw though as I know some do. In quebec we stayed in a park that had signs indicating EV/RV combos had to rent 50 amp sites but there were none available the 5 nights we were there so he just told us to make sure we only plugged in one thing at a time. He didn’t charge us anything extra. We charged the first night and then topped up the day before we left.
We are seeing more and more parks put in a couple or even four centralized. 8 kw EVSE’s for charging and they just indicate that any EV charging must be done using those EVSE’s (Charge stations) and not on the sites. Some are stand alone and complimentary and some are networked usually thru FLO and typically charge a dollar or two an hour based on speed. On our last trip there were two new FLO units at the shower house which was maybe 4 or 5 sites from our site. I think it was 2 bucks an hour. We got set up on our site and I drove over and plugged in. It was all charged up by bed time. Handy. Here is a pic. FLO seems to be getting pretty popular in these situations. They are super reliable and I can’t remember ever coming across a FLO station offline. We use a prepaid FlO RFID card but most people use the FLO app. There was a Rivian towing an airstream base camp at that campground and he was charging when I disconnected. I think he charged all night but he has a significantly bigger battery than us.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53128814112_2a36c4b257_c.jpg
We did a local trip to silver star mountain where we did 4 days of hiking and they had two complimentary charge stations on the wall at the pit toilets. This is technically a ski hill but they have one parking lot set up as camp sites for mountain bikers and hikers. I think they were 7 kw machines. They had two more in another parking lot and I think they were 11.5 kw machines. (According to the app). They were also complimentary but were more directed at the skiers staying in the hotel. Here are a couple pics of the four charge stations in the parking lots. We used the two at the campground obviously.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53236474759_48cff91733_c.jpg
We have seen these clipper units a lot in these situations My guess is they must be pretty tough all weather units. We have a little 12 amp unit at our house for our outside unit. These two are 48 amp units so 11.5 KW units.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53236511619_04de29975a_c.jpg
Every campground does it different but there is usually some charging solution offered.
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Reisender
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10/05/23 07:51am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: EV use the 30 amp 110V?
All this assumes the campground is wired up to standard.
I've been in campgrounds with some pretty sketchy wiring and some serious voltage drop.
True. But then again, the Tesla compensates for voltage drop and ramps down charging. An RV doesn’t.
True but a 30amp RV rarely pulls more than 50% of the 30 amps except for a second or so on start up of the air/con compressor. EVs max out the pedestals for extended periods of time. Proper wiring in campgrounds assumes not every aircon is running simultaneously (I believe they derate by 70% when accounting for this)...and many campgrounds are still pushed to the limit on hot summer weekends. A stray EV likely won't make much difference but dozens of them certainly can depending on the size of the park and condition of the electrical system.
Also, if the car is smart enough to dial back the amps, you now have 12amps at 106v (or something)...it's going to take 3 days to fill an 80kwh battery bank that is near empty.
Yah for sure I can see that. When we tour we are quite often 3 or 4 days in each spot anyway so it doesn't affect us much. Hike the hikes, see the sites etc.
More than a few times we have had campground staff put us in a site that has an extra 20 amp receptacle. Handy for us as we just leave the trailer plugged into the 30 amp and the car plugged into the 20 amp. When on a 20 amp circuit the car limits to 16 amps unless the voltage is low and them it limits to 12 amps. Here is a site where we did that.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52387012788_4b6078e2e6_c.jpg
I believe that was here close to comox.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52385847997_64ed361759_c.jpg
Campground staff are generally pretty accommodating. Sometimes there is a fee although if its just a single TT30 plug on the site we have never been charged. If they have 50 amp sites they usually ask us to upgrade to a 50 amp site and then we just split the pedestal with one of these. The car gets its 24 amps and the trailer is free to use its 30. We use one of these.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53129847403_61845e7a72_c.jpg
If you are wondering what these smart adapters look like here is a pic. From left to right this is what you are looking at. The adapter plugs into the top of the EVSE. There are many more for dryer plugs, welding plugs etc etc but these are the 4 we use when camping.
-The tesla mobile charging cable otherwise known as an EVSE
-the 14-50 adapter which allows 32 amps at 240 volts.
-the 5-15 adapter that allows 12 amps at 120 volts
-the 5-20 adapter that allows 16 amps at 120 volts
-the TT30 adapter that allows 24 amps at 120 volts.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52224570038_5b5d46b104_c.jpg
Here is an example of the low voltage situation. Here it is limiting to 18 amps but if it stays at this voltage for X amount of time it lowers to 12 amps etc. It does it in 6 amp increments.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53234797301_d584eb75c0_c.jpgUntitled by radar231, on Flickr
Anyway. Probably more info than anyone wanted but hopefully some may find it interesting.
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Reisender
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10/04/23 04:16pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: EV use the 30 amp 110V?
All this assumes the campground is wired up to standard.
I've been in campgrounds with some pretty sketchy wiring and some serious voltage drop.
True. But then again, the Tesla compensates for voltage drop and ramps down charging. An RV doesn’t.
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Reisender
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10/04/23 02:04pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: EV use the 30 amp 110V?
Thank you, that was the answer I needed.
For some other questions, the Tesla owner in the park had the slip on his/her windshield that showed they had paid.
Perhaps, they did not have a 30 amp plug.
Happy to help. If you have other questions feel free to ask.
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Reisender
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10/04/23 08:25am |
Tow Vehicles
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